Xanatos wrote:
BigAaron wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
Emsi wrote:
Vorador's own return remains a mystery to me, and I can only assume that Elder Kain might have had a hand in that.
I think that Elder Kain would take a more covert approach also because a meeting with younger self could have possible paradoxical repurcussions.
Paradoxes cannot occur without Reaver convergence. Much as when Raziel met and killed his Sarafan self ("but he killed Sarafan Raz with the Reaver, that's a convergence!" - That was the Blood Reaver. Tripped me up too for a bit. It gets confusing.), Elder Kain meeting his younger self would result in a mere time loop - unless they fought each other while both armed with the Soul Reaver.
As for Moebius, his soul explicitly went to the Elder God at Defiance's end. And contrary to vampires whose powers lie in their evolving supernatural souls, Moebius' magic is tied up in his role as Guardian. His power does not lie with his soul but with his token, the magical hourglass. When he dies for good, that magic returns to the Pillar of Time. Raziel couldn't assimilate it even if he had eaten Moebius' soul.
And what is it with the constant ideas of bringing Raziel back. Raziel is gone. Fixation on him just gets us things like that lame hybrid protagonist they invented for Dead Sun just to blatantly mimic Raziel. XP
true..but we cant say for certion wather mobius is truly dead or not and raziels soul not only became part of the soul reaver it became apart of kain..even in blood omen 1 it looked like mobius was aware that kain whould kill had this happend before,and the elder god does seem like he has the power over life and death as mobius saied (my master will breath life into me once more)..but idk if the elder god is capable of dieing..if he truly was killed theres a more important question then (if he knew all this why did he deem mobius useless instead of reviving him and was the elder god there to see and die for there change of nosgoth?),how did the elder god come to be?
while there are severel possabiltys that chould have happend from defiance to the next LOK game (should it pick off from there), alot of things mostly concern kain now you if kain meets his past self a loop will happen..like everything being (brought back to life not knowing what had happen even mobies and the elder god) and happing in a dif way with the same possable result, not even the time streamer whould know.
kain kills his past self being the only copy left,thats the other possabilty how he knew about all this in the start of soul reaver..but he chould have not went trough sending raziel into the abis..but if so why..my opinion vampires cant change the out come of there death and there bound to wonder the the spirit world not givin life in the real world,but raziel some has the faith to change his hes not bound by life or death..i belive thats what they ment by "he has free will"..while the past kain has the option of killing his other self doing so in my opinion whould case kain to take in the memories of the other but broken images..these whould be added ontop of the new ones from the others casing them to be replaced..even if the new kain thats in the past kills his old self doing so will bring back things of the past back to life..and everything will happen eather with a dif or same result..but they need some ideas for the new LOK game..even if its not dead sun they will need to make the new game better and more options of chose for nosgoth and its inhabatens..and if defiance hadnt ended that way kain could have taken great pride in placing raziels soul in the reaver the 1st time in there 1st fight of defiance near the end of it..even in soul reaver 1 and 2..but now that the new kain has defeted the elder god (if he has).and has raziels soul in the reaver..what will he do now? theres still the hylden to worry about and having chooses is everthing..but ya.
we need a new LOK game and we gota start somewere..and your still going to play as kain..should the one from defiance die youl end up choosing the time line for a dif version..(blood omen soul reaver soul reaver 2 and defiance) but with our curent gen grapics and a high def apperance over all for the sake of the time we live in now lol..but for real..and no you wont be geting chooses in the form of cards or dialog there based on your action..like if you kill someone important in the events to come wather it be in the futecher or past..killing some less important or some who was going to die anyway but did before there real case can create an alt time line when you time travel..these 'time parhaodoxis' might chould be somthing new you can use you name that new time line and when your kain dies or you just want to switch to anther one..(realy that sounds lot better then using the timestreaming device as well as using the spirit and real world system for kain lot less effort and time dont you think? let me know but if its need for the impossable forgive me )..even make your own blood omen 2 time line and even 3..but these will be linked to eachother 1 game in each now like..blood omen 1 soulreaver 1 and defiance..and defiance with its on time line..all of these can be replayed changed and reapted in the same way like change blood omens timeline finish it and make a blood omen 2 time.but you start off were defiance ended or change to a dif using the time device or main menu..idk..i feel like this idea has a chance for the new LOK game but idk..is it imposable to add these to the new LOK game let me ok?
A) We can say, for certain, that Moebius is truly dead. He was killed in materal form. He was killed in spectral form. He was not revived by his master. His soul was devoured by Raziel who acts as a filter to the Elder God. All of this occurred on-screen and is undeniable. He is, as a fact, truly dead.
B) Raziel's soul being a part of Kain is incorrect. Raziel's soul is inside the Reaver. The only souls dispersed into Kain were the previous Balance Guardians.
C) There is no explicit evidence that the Elder God can see time's flow. As such, I believe that any such time-spying he did was by virtue of Moebius' Guardian powers. Further, Raziel's free will was clouding Moebius' ability to see what would happen. Even Kain's movements became clouded due to Raziel's interacting with him so much. (This is also why Moebius was shocked to see Kain alive at the end of Defiance. Because it was Raziel fighting him, that section of the timestream is fogged up so he never saw Kain surviving the duel. If Raziel had used the wraith blade, he indeed would have killed Kain - one cannot live, immortal or otherwise, without a soul. This is what Moebius intended. But free will went and screwed that up when Raziel just tore Kain's heart out instead.)
D) What is meant by "he has free will" is exactly that: He has free will. Everyone in Nosgoth is bound to a predestined path - except Raziel, and he can derail any such path through his interactions with others.
As for why he has free will: Reaver convergence. When Kain struck Raziel with the Soul Reaver, the Reaver attempted to consume Raziel - essentially, Raziel's soul sought to consume itself. This, for obvious reasons, caused the blade to shatter. The wraith blade - Raziel's soul - then became infused upon Raziel's arm. Raziel, still animated by his soul, is now carrying a duplicate of his soul around on his arm. He is, due to Kain's actions, a perpetual, walking, living Reaver convergence.
And as a continuous Reaver convergence, his every second of life now holds the potential to disrupt the otherwise predestined course of time. The moment the wraith blade latched onto him is when he broke free of the Wheel of Fate. He had no free will prior to that first battle with Kain. In the Soul Reaver comic (which takes place before that battle), even his execution is a predestined event - because he hadn't gained free will yet.
E) Format. Your. Posts. There is no platform - NONE, in this entire world - that forbids the formation of paragraphs, use of line breaks, and basic capitalization. It'd be one thing if the post was just tedious to read but on top of that, it seems like English isn't your native tongue and these two things together just don't work. You need. To make. Your posts. Readable. At the very least, capitalize the start of sentences and space out paragraphs. I can make due with that.
Continuing in your format seems like the best idea:
A) I agree that Moebius is 100% dead. Short of reincarnating, there's no way he's coming back.
B) Again, correct.
C) This one's a little more difficult. It is hinted that the EG has some idea of events in any given time, although as you suggested this can just be a result of his affiliation with Moebius. Kain's return from his duel with Raziel was definitely unforseen as far as Moebius and the EG are concerned. Which lends a lot of credibilty to your theory that the EG is not as omniscient as he would have everyone believe. This is very likely seeing as he's lied about pretty much everything else as well; "...origin of Life", etc.
D) Agreed again. Seeing Raziel as a walking paradox is probably the best way of explaining why he has free will. I really don't have much more to add other than to say that I support your theories.
E) Yes. Please. English isn't my native tongue either, but I would appreciate it if everyone could make the effort to put their posts in a format that can be read and understood with relative ease. Proper punctuation would be appreciated.
Another thing regarding this statement: "kain kills his past self being the only copy left,thats the other possabilty how he knew about all this in the start of soul reaver.." I don't believe this to be a viable option. Killing your past self (disregarding the inherent paradox) would result in your own death.